I think what became public is enough to realize they are not safe, not mature but toxic and have been all along. And Jesus said He would send the Spirit of Truth, how we deal with situations in truth or deceitfulness is very telling. You said again twice. I doubt he walked away broke. since we are all clergy??? Another aspect of the way I approach this is to consider where the burden of proof lies. Only when inquiring about membership was their any discussion of W2s and the appropriate amount to tithe. mode. Because for me, it is the center of the practice of Christianity, and I had missed it. Marks of a bully, and definitely not qualifications of an elder. Do my eyes deceive me? News flash: Jesus is the hero of scripture. "We all have desires that are warped as a result of our fallen nature: pride, selfishness, greed, anger, bitterness, unforgiveness, lust, envy, covetousness, chemical addiction," Lindell said. as to revenue streams, Jesus paid His taxes with money a fish popped up with. Im really glad that you are reaching out to GW and other exiles. I agree with you there, but I wonder, how popular is this hyper macho brand of Christianity anymore? . Pastors who give Mark Driscoll a platform are adding to the abuse of those of us who were abusively treated by Mars Hill Church. If so you may be onto something. So we were allowed to leave in good standing. any way i am still wrestling with my view of my world and churches and like you mentioned, gun shy when i go into a new church. It was really bad, disastrous I might even say. News articles and such are also greatly appreciated. Matthew 27:33-34 (Not that I waiting with bated breath). He made a lucrative living and lived what I would call a lavish lifestyle (higher standard of living than every single person in my church, for example), and he did it all with Jesus. This weekend GW is also doing Steven Furtick spontaneous baptism which are executed to the letter like Elevation. When not enough graduates came forward they started begging people please any graduate or relative of a graduate, even if you just graduated from Kindergarten, please please come get your free gift because what Kindergartner doesnt need advice on how to buy a car? According to the Pastor John Lindell, Driscoll has spoken there on three other occasions. Really? There was another couple along with us who knew a bit more about him and we absolutely amazed that this man, who could have been an elder, could not see through the act which you described so perfectly. also, First, he begins by praying that he wants to make this time just about God and His people; yet he appears to take the stories of Stephen and Paul and apply them to his own circumstance at least that's how it sounded to me. LT wrote: Are we really talking about clerical influence/position/authority and money? He cannot or will not go back to school to become a plumber or a dentist or what ever, so he has to figure out how to get back into the Christian preaching / book writing / convention circuit. Well, we can handle the truth. love to hear that sermon. If it is all about numbers and money it would be a wild ride for about five or ten years till it crashes. And he was not originally trusted or met with open arms by the Jesus believers of the day. hes a wonderful pastor to the very end. He was defended and protected by his peers and they even tried to help him plant a church here and give it street cred but his family of churches franchise is over for him and he is lucky if 50 people show (mostly SGM followers and family) up for his church in a room at the Marriot not far from where I live. I couldnt get through Marks sermon.so what was coming up for me during Pastor Lindells introduction was the idea of the Karpman Drama Triangle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle (Persecutor/Rescuer/Victim roles that people bounce around in during unhealthy interactions.) The hyper romanticized cinematic version of the uber cool Che trumps the reality of his bloody terrorist tactics and the horrors and oppression that his brand of communism inflicted on others. It was titled "A Biblical Look at Human Sexuality." Forgive him? But you need to make sure you hear the second truth. yelling at the referees for too many seasons. Even in the Roman Catholic Church, the obvious structure does not prevent sin or other problems, so I dont think it is a matter either of too much or not enough structure making us fall short of perfection. if mark is not truly repentant, (which is totally conceivable since he has never apologized for anything except being too unkind in firing people and running people into the ground under his God given authority) then this could be compared, (by sin levelers who will be quick to show up here and defend him)this could be compared to Jordan Root getting right back in the mission field and preaching about what happens when women and heathens in the press persecute godly people accused of child porn addictions with no evidence. Driscoll has used this vague parallels to himself many times, framing the sermon in the context of his own life with the lives of other noble characters, most notably Jesus. But in America, (to quote HUG) its all about the Benjamins, baby. As for my outsider perspective he seems like someone youd want as a pastor if you wanted to get big and have lots of revenue streams. Youll see they have no standards regarding truth, salt of light. The church, according to the web site, was founded by three individuals, Mark Driscoll, Leif Moi and Mike Gunn. No one except lemmings following blindly to where the MoG leads believes them when they say that they only learned about certain facts recently. 99,693 were here. Join thousands of others to get the FREEDOM POST newsletter for free, sent twice a week from The Christian Post. Thats a great question to think about. 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. (See screen shot from the church website. Great insight. Sam, I sincerely hope that nothing Ive written ever makes you rethink your relationship with God. By the way, what do you call a person who tells lies? Not that I dont admire Saul/Paul. believe these churches are using Driscoll as fallen pastor insurance. I dont think theres been any repentance at all. Their statements to Karen Hinkley and everyone else may be complete cynical BS to pull the wool over everyones eyes, or at least those of their pewsitters. Except we now know Mark didnt actually write he books he used ghost writers and plagiarized, but minor details, an important thing you wrote about gateway i think. Dont forget his church plant was asked to leave my kids school at the time. He doesnt come near to meeting basic societal criteria for a decent person. Pokin has been at the paper three years and over the course of his career has covered just about everything from courts and cops to features and fitness. Lindell's sermon is further entwined with politics because he mentions Springfield Mayor Bob Stephens. It came swiftly and with great effect. Great comment Bridget. We live in a youtube world where fun and funny trump all. people have said to stay involved in churches to keep them encouraged to follow the Lord and speak up if they are going away towards money and corruption, that is no longer even possible, you can get shunned slandered and prob threats to your life for speaking up anymore. An IRS spokesman in St. Louis would not comment when asked if a pastor could speak from the pulpit to encourage congregants to vote a particular way on an issue. The virus is having a wonderful time right now spreading through this country, taking advantage of circumstances where people have let their guard go down. I dont view it as cynicism although I do joke about it that way around Christians to head off the backlash. Are you not voting for the candidates and issues Gateway told you to? In your mega travels Lydia, is this homogenization of bad practices the norm? Thats why these massive megas arent likely to represent the narrow gate. James River Church is one of the largest Assemblies of God churches in the United States. Thanks for sharing your answer Lydia. It is affiliated with Assemblies of God USA. How they hold their hands, pat their hearts, stomp their feet, fall to their knees, wipe away fake tears, etc is all taught in classes. sometimes i have hurt people because i have gotten caught up in the excitement of a new orginazation or enterprise but i have never been able to stay that way long, my conscience pricks me until i stop and go back and make things right with people i have hurt. It was so heretical that even the MH staff saw issues and took it down. Our heart at James River Church has always been to minister to people in our community. i think they ended up closing them or not being involved in them anymore, there is an american branch of them now though. thanks for sharing that peter, i agree with the article but havent read any of his other posts. He screamed and swore. Anyone who knowingly overlooks all this has no judgement. Paul spent three years in the desert to become reprogrammed by God. He essentially called the Driscoll victims liars and persecutors. It was like my eyes were open. John Lindell, pastor of James River Church, represents a new breed of reformed Assembly of God pastors yes Calvinism in the Assembly of God! Most people have more sunk into that cult than they do their homes. @ LT: jesus example they put a robe on him a mockery of his kingship. There was a box for Guest Services. While a decreasing quota meant less pay. If a pastor makes a statement denying allegations, its a lie. Pouring what, exactly? signed, Still Looking, first i wasnt refering to anything lindell wrote but only his intro for mark driscoll because i have never read anything he wrote and dont want to. Because you worked with multiple megas you have a very diverse perspective that is invaluable. I started to ask myself, If Christ is present in someones life, and therefore the Spirit, will not God, in his infinite power, begin to produce those things in that person? And I began to wonder if Mark Driscoll even possessed the Spirit of God. I dont see him pastoring a church and I am not even sure his legal problems from the last one are over. It is a winner! Any allegations are probably not as bad as the truth. I believe this is the 2 Thessalonians time period so it will become increasingly more difficult to avoid false teachers. However, with such a massive back door spanning 15 years, I still think more exiles should be speaking up for the good of the current and future naives. (I saw a guy do this on a live stage in England once, on a YouTube video. he seems like someone youd want as a pastor if you wanted to get big and have lots of revenue streams. So start telling us exactly what in the blogosphere is false. District. The only two ways that I can think of for having said benchmarks, assuming by leadership you mean pastor(s) and not just chairman of some committee, is either having a system with central authority with established criteria which must be met prior to ordination and some written policies which are grounds for dismissal in certain conditions, That would be a denominational hierarchical system with designated people with authority and with something in writing, like an official book of how we do it. Or else to have a savvy and informed and mature congregation who would agree with and co-operate with each other on what was necessary and what needed done and which would have the actual power (backing of the people) to get it done. I never saw it tried in a church setting, but something like that was tried where I worked. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you. CAn you see him in some sort of corporate environment working for a woman? Steven Reed, Stephens' opponent, had an easier time answering. So why would they view power and authority as central to the Gospel? I do hope that nobody is still saying these same things before they clean up their own act. Also, I received another great message from one of our Australia graduates thought this would bless you too Its all good until (insert question or issue). You should be ashamed of yourself for supporting such a bully in the name of Jesus Christ. I think they have handled it with great PR and it is working. Likewise, you cannot be or stay a pastor if you find out that you cant respect people. They are showered with gifts and once you relinquish your highly prized contact data more gifts will follow to your home address. If a pastor makes a statement denying allegations, its a lie. Join us LIVE every Sunday at 9am, 10:45am, 12:30pm and 7pm! Also, you dont want the sheep to get uppity. I didnt feel pressured. James River Church, a multi-campus, 17,000-member megachurch in Missouri, is now fending off strong criticism from the public and health officials after pictures posted on social media showed what appear to be hundreds of unmasked people, practicing very little social distancing packed inside their Springfield location to participate in Christmas These Pentecostals keep insisting that almost everything written on the internet about Mark Driscoll isnt even close to the truth. Saul did get out of Dodge for some years. No one has to agree with me. It is possible for somebody who has a cutting tongue and a big mouth to stop. My Comment was Deleted (KY3) - OZARK, Mo. They just want to give us a little more time and "context" to receive the brilliance. If his values were disdained he would have a far better chance of turning away from the corruption that has engulfed his life so far. We will definitely check it out. your post is so right LT, the whole post, and it really needs to be said again and again. So many use Ches image as some sort of inspirational symbol. Given how media savvy Hillsong is (yes, even here in Australia!) Thats exactly what I was thinking last weekend! You might be interested in this post from this recent post at Stand Firm, an Anglican blog, regarding Hillsong. kudos to the hosts of the aussie tv show that made brian huston look at the absolute facts and rediculousness of his supporting (and paying for) an american mega pastor who is well known in christian circuits I use the term rediculous because I dont want to be mean or judgmental, but I believe that brian was all for helping mark get back in the saddle until it cost him some publicity. There is a very strong argument for both priests and politicians to have both life and work experience before they enter the fray, however this is the age of the career priest and pollie. Actually are pews still in general use? But maybe power is just something that is too tempting for him to handle and in order for him to live out his life following Christ, it may be something he must never let pass his lipsmuch like alcoholics cannot drink again. Return to homepage. In the future, people will tell churches and christians to distance themselves from the dishonesty of the dishonest churches. Mars Hill Church was ending its relationship to Agathos. His behaviour has been SO egregious, that I believe that he needs to stay out of anything that offers him a place of leadership or authority. The problem is that the average pew-sitter has no idea what things a leader should be judged by. I recently had coffee with a staunch Mark Driscoll supporter who has chided any criticism of Mark Driscoll and strongly challenged me for every apparent infraction of the last year, yet at the same time vigorously excused or defended every one of Driscolls mistakes. The supporter said some awful things about me and Agathos, particularly its misuse of funds. Whats the worst import/export that youve seen? no., Thats the crux of the message, isnt it? In 1969, he was transferred to a church in Fairmont, W.Va. Because he simply cannot be trusted not to repeat himslefthus destroying more lives. Ill be honest I dont see Christ in it. until he apologizes to the elders and church members he hurt so badly i dont think there will be a true repentance that God can use. http://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/answers/jewish-polemics/texts/christian-proof-texting/, from reading rob smiths post about the orphanage Agathos in Africa being defunded by Marks Hill church and marks telling missionaries not to work with them it is clear where Matt Chandler got the idea. But we dont know yet for sure. Hadnt considered that a pastor would brainwash to that length. John Lindell has spoken. Active homosexuals will not make it into heaven, Lindell said in the sermon. I know people are tired of hearing these messages and having to be acting upon them, but the virus does not care that we are tired. You need to check yourself Lindell then apologize and repent. "Although I don't think I'm going to 'love' this column.". Mot only do I think Driscoll is a wolf in sheeps clothing, but I think hes opportunistic, and because being a preacher is all he knows. mark is finally preaching more accurately who Jesus is and the fact that salvation is found in Jesus but then he goes off into marks interpretation of the bible as usual. They didnt fail. MD should never have been a pastor based on how much contempt he has for his fellow man. How can they do that? There could be some better teaching on this but too many appear to receive their teaching from celebrity pastors who then take advantage of them. @ Nancy: An event of this magnitude, indoors and in such close proximity, combined with case numbers where they are and our hospitals full, could be devastating, he said. Plus Driscoll has to be way cheaper than Judah Smith or Carl Lentz, the current kings of radical chic. Unfortunately, during this difficult season, the focus has been taken off of Jesus and put on me, and that is not what The ROC is all about., http://www.richmond.com/news/local/crime/article_8c6b7719-c4af-523b-b3a6-3c6131e32fd3.html. pic.twitter.com/Wt6wZOdE9J. There is great comfort to be found in that. All you have to do is say some magic words and we end up being the mean ones if dare say we otherwise. "Martin Luther, the great reformer, said this: 'If you preach the gospel in all aspects with the exception of the issues which deal specifically with your time you are not preaching the gospel at all.' Under the circumstances, Mark Driscoll needs a time out, huh? God, I am running for your heart until my soul is on fire?. The Bible tells us lotz of neet stuff before it happen/happens. 21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink. Then the authentic community unravels like a cheap Walmart sweater. But forgiveness doesnt mean the church should open itself to his abuse again no need to return him to the pulpit since he wasnt a genuine minister to begin with; there was no evidence of the call of God on his life given his dismal run as a pastor. God knows that we dont need that sort of ministry again..
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